FBI draft transcript of 6/26/96 recording
(page numbers refer to original document, docket #211 in CR 96-500C, U.S. v Pitner et al., Federal District Court for Western Washington.)
pp. 1 - 12 FBI SA Mike German and Michael O'laire discuss death threats, slingshot wars, hiding places and other "hilarious" matters prior to their guests' arrival.
pp. 12 - 18 Joshua Leibrant arrives with Ed Maeurer (referred to as "CW" -- Confidential Witness -- in the transcript), Marlin Mack and Fred Fisher.
p. 18 - 19 This appears to be the first time that German and Fisher have met.
pp. 20 - 21 Fred Fisher reviews the latest issue of the John Birch Society's New American magazine.
pp.21 - 23 The Washington State Militia intones the Pledge of Allegiance. Mack and Fisher discuss The Patriot Report from the Present Truth Ministry in Union Town, Arizona.
pp. 24 - 29 A serious discussion about helicopters that aren't really black. Fisher would like to shoot one down to prove that they exist.
p. 29 Mike German provides the title for this report when he tells Mack, "You're not paranoid if they're really out to get you."
pp. 29 - 31 Fisher wants to shoot someone. Sinister fences with barbed wire slanting inwards are a sign of plans for New World Order detention facilities.
pp. 32 - 37 Mack gives a lecture on his "green tubes of destruction." Ways to increase the lethality of the devices are discussed.
pp. 38 - 42 Mack suggests getting free matches from bars and restaurants would be an excellent way to build an arsenal. Fisher reveals the "politically correct" nature of child-proof lighters. Mack explains the construction of booby traps.
pp. 43 - 50 SA German gets first hand experience with explosive ignitors. More discussion of bombs, booby traps, napalm and other implements of destruction.
p. 50 Mack gives German and Maeurer a bad moment by making a joke about Maeurer wearing a "wire" (concealed radio transmitter.)
pp. 51 - 57 Fisher discusses his caches of survival supplies. This passage was introduced into evidence at the detention hearing to show Fisher's flight risk.
pp. 57 - 62 Fisher and Mack indicate that they have considered using Bellingham parks and the Western Washington University arboretum on Sehome Hill for their militia activities and caches. Fisher suggests cayenne pepper as a basic survival necessity and reveals his fondness for exotic shotgun ammunition: flechettes, incindieries and 0-0-0 buckshot.
pp. 62 - 66 A minor flurry is caused when Mack hears a noise outside. Fisher mentions buying lead from the Minutemen and storing it in John's garage.
pp. 67 - 73 Mack says, "We're into manhunter bullets." More discussion of booby traps. Leibrant, whose greatest contribution to the conversation so far has been (unintelligible), reveals a good understanding of Newton's second law of motion. More discussion of the finer aspects of booby traps.
pp. 74 - 79 Mack holds forth on bomb-making. The perennial Patriot infatuation with denial, disassociation and reinventing the past is discussed. Mack and Fisher discuss the possible recruitment of an alleged white supremacist who lives at Gooseberry Point on the Lummi Indian Reservation. O'Laire cites a magazine article as proof that people in the militias aren't racist. Fisher thinks America needs cleansing, but doesn't say of what.
pp. 79 - 89 Mack is proud to be a stumbling block. A Russian invasion. Fisher wants to shoot more people. Mack describes sparkler bomb's at John Pitner's and describes their construction.
pp. 90 - 95 Fisher would like to toss a bomb into the Bellingham Police Department. Mack and O'Laire want to go play paintball.
pp. 96 - 100 Mack wants his next paycheck in gold. A deep and profound discussion of terrorism, driver's licenses and computers. Mack makes a joke about ammonium nitrate.
pp. 101 - 107 Fleeing for the hills is discussed. Mack compares the local situation to Croatia or Bosnia or something. Fisher is worried about gas and laser weapons.
pp. 107 - 111 Mack jokes about the vastly inflated figures that have been published in the media regarding militia participation. Mack then demonstrates a method for making pipe bombs.
pp. 111 - 114 Fisher wants to kill people when he goes. Mack jokes about going out for the weekend to kill a few feds. Fisher suggests marking fresh water springs on a map.
pp. 114 -116 An extensive discussion of one of the natural wonders of Whatcom County: the Fabulous Eternal Flame of Ferndale.
pp. 117 - 120 More discussion of cacheing, evasion, heat seekers and countermeasures. Fisher is always looking for new caves.
p. 120 Maeuer informs Mack that "you've been done." German laughs.
pp. 121 - 126 Discussion continues from p. 120 of trapping John Pitner and confronting him over where the supposed central cache is. In later statements to the FBI, Pitner claimed that he had mislead the others about the existance of a large cache. Pitner's propensity for lying is discussed. Mack talks about how they could "kill every cop in town." Fisher suggests small groups are better, a reference to Leaderless Resistance strategy. They make jokes about Pitner's exagerations of the number of participants in the militia and discuss taking control away from Pitner.
pp. 126 - 130 Mack suggests calling Pitner on the phone and making a death threat. He then calls Pitner and has an innocuous conversation with him.
pp. 131 - 140 O'Laire and Maeurer discuss stolen guns. Small talk as various people talk about guns that they own.
pp. 141 - 148 The discussion returns to setting up a meeting with Pitner. Fisher asks German if he can obtain hand grenades. More talk of incindiary twelve-gauge shells and shotguns. Some jokes about hiding out in the bush. The meeting breaks up and people depart.
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